The burqa. A security blanket or evidence of psychological disturbance?

I disagree.... to a degree.

Women that wear the burqa to feel secure are most likely talking about security from sexual harrassment. This is not a problem with her but the society around her. If a non-muslim woman has to wear a trenchcoat to hide her figure to avoid harrassment, then surely there is something wrong with the men around her.
This is hardly akin to agoraphobia.

I do agree however, that it is religion that has led to the men in many societies to feel that sexual harrassment is ok. The obssession with controlling women's bodies is a largley religious one, and the notion that men cannot control themselves (if you leave meat uncovered, don't blame the flies) is obviously a ridiculous religious and cultural by-product of gender separation. It is also part of the everlasting tactic of shaming women into "appropriate" sexual conduct.

I went to the middle east when I was 18, and the attention I received was annoying at best, and illegal at worst. I have also been to southern italy, and I have to admit, it wasn't much better! Two overtly religious societies which claim to respect women, but clearly only if they are your mother or sister.

As to France's banning of the burqa, I believe it is also ridiculous. Women should have the choice to wear whatever they choose. Once we ban it we become as bad as those who impose it.

This article sums it up pretty well:
http://www.salon.com/mwt/broadsheet/feature/2009/06/22/burqa_france/inde...

The burqa is a much older cultural tool used to subjugate women throughout history than Islam itself, with many ancient Roman sites in the Middle East showing depictions of women wearing it, hundreds of years before Mohammed. The "religious" instruction to wear it in Islam therefore is a legacy of older prejudices and not "the word of God"

True, it has a history older than Islam, but it has become sycretized with the religion through Koranic "instructions" that are accepted as "the word of God".

melika does that mean that because the wearing of the burqa is an instruction in the Koran and is accepted as the word of God that it IS the word of God?

melika, even if as you say, women who use security as an excuse for wearing the burqa "are talking about freedom from sexual harassment", is this not an out-of-proportion fear if it forces them to go around hiding themselves behind a veil?. People who live in the West are protected by strict laws for punishing such unwanted attention. The emphasis being on "unwanted".

No doubt the reasons for wearing the burqa are many fold. And it could be that many who choose to wear it do so becaue they know that without it they would get even less attention and so by seeking to have it imposed on the young and old alike - under the pretext of feeling secure - cuts down the competition allowing delusions of attractiveness to linger for far longer than they might otherwise do. Have people been made so afraid of life that they submit to such fears and must hide themselves in a mobile tent?

At some future time, when Islam like Christianity has discarded its pagan past, people will look back on the burqa with incredulity and disbelief that people could be so vulnerable and so brainwashed.

Haha, you do realise that this is an atheist forum? I don't think any of it IS the word of God because I don't believe in God.

Whatever is accepted by man as "the word of god" is merely man making rules to suit himself and imposing them on others.

When I wrote that women who wear the burqa are desiring freedom from sexual harassment, I meant those that live in the middle east, not the west, where I agree, we do have laws against sexual harassment. (That is not to say these laws aren’t infallible and women in the west are completely harassment free.)

I would think that the majority of the women that wear the burqa in western society do so because they are immigrants and thus still conform to the cultural and religious upbringing of their home country, or, they want to outwardly identify themselves as being Muslim and believe strongly in the religious reasons for the veil.

I did not see the BBC report so I do not know if the woman interviewed grew up in France or what her background was, but if she felt more secure wearing the burqa then who are we to take that away from her? Even if we do feel that it is unnecessary.

Daveb, I find it beyond ridiculous that you would think any women would wear the burqa because they are seeking attention or are afraid to “compete” with other women for attractiveness. You must have a pretty low and reductive opinion of women...

Finally, the wearing of the burqa is not a pagan tradition, nor has Christianity totally rid itself of its ties with the folk religion.

malika isn't there a bit of contradiction in your two statements below?

"True, it has a history older than Islam, but it has become sycretized with the religion through Koranic "instructions" that are accepted as "the word of God".

"Finally, the wearing of the burqa is not a pagan tradition, nor has Christianity totally rid itself of its ties with the folk religion"

According to some Muslims(see documentary "Inside the Koran")...it was a custom of Bedouins long before Mohammad. Which can be understood as a way of keeping desert sand out of the face.

Yes, just because it is older than Islam does not make it Pagan. It was not necessarily a religious practice, but a cultural one.

Stop mincing with words melika, the burqa was probably worn (for practical reasons) long before Jesus, Mohammad, or all the other so-called prophets, along with all the other pagan cultural practices of pre-Islamic Arabs.

That's what makes it so ridiculous now for a desert form of dress to be worn in the streets of western cities where there are no sandstorms, because the reasons for wearing it have been converted by the insecure male members of their (so-called) religion as being a command from god to hide their charms for the world.

It's an evil distortion of reality and logic that we, at the very least, should disapprove of.

I’m not disagreeing with you that it is ridiculous. I don’t think women should have to wear it, or should think that they have to wear it. It is completely ridiculous, and I’m totally against the covering up of women for “security” purposes rather than using law to prevent them from being harassed. And I agree that the wearing of it is most likely from a pre-religious cultural practice.

All I was saying was that:
1. I can understand why women in the Middle East might wear it for security from men.
2. I don’t believe we should assume that women who wear it in the West have some sort of mental disturbance.
3. It shouldn’t be banned, because that is also taking away choice from women.

Yes melika, but isn't this a chicken and egg situation? You seem to be saying that the wearing of the burqa is justified in Middle Eastern countries because of the lecherous behaviour of men of that culture.

Which raises a very interesting question for Humanists about the religious upbringing of males in Islamic cultures where they are denied normal interaction with girls of their own age, friendships etc, as they are growing up. So that they grow into adulthood without developing the same self controls as young men with open access to the company of girls, as in western culture.

Have we not had plenty of examples of the sexual crimes committed by young Muslim males when they find themselves in societies where women are not covered from head to toe.

So maybe we should be condemning the religious paranoia that creates the men that harass the women that live in the house the Mohammed built........Just a joke.

I think the argument has come to an end point. Why don't you guys look at some of the other issues on the site?

Comment pages are supposed to be about lively debates such as this. It's a pity that there are not more humanists with enough interest themselves in religious culture vs. anti-religious cutlture topics.

I agree: That is the answer! Chastise the men, not the women for trying to protect themselves.